34 - Become the Leader You Would Follow
BECOME THE LEADER PODCAST
Episode 34: Become the Leader You Would Follow
Hosts: Jody Holland, Mike Grigsby, Meghan Slaughter, Maleah Berens
QUICK SUMMARY
Every episode of this show ends the same way: become the kind of leader that you would actually follow. In Episode 34, the team finally turns that closing line into the whole conversation.
They start where it is easiest to be honest, with the deal breakers. The boss who competes against her own people. The one who holds you accountable for standards he will not hold himself to. The micromanager who hired you for a job and then will not let you do it. From there the conversation flips: what actually earns followership?
The answer keeps circling back to credibility. Jody points to three decades of Kouzes and Posner's research, which keeps expecting generational change and keeps finding the same thing. People want a leader they can trust who also knows what they are doing. Around that core, the team builds out the rest: compassionate curiosity, high IQ paired with high EQ, radical self awareness, and the discipline to think with your imagination instead of your memory.
The back half gets practical. Meghan makes the case that you cannot lead until you have been led, including by someone bad, because pain is a clarifying teacher. Maleah pushes on why you want to lead in the first place, and warns that "I just do not like working under people" is the seed of a selfish boss. Mike draws a hard line between positional authority and actual leadership. And Jody closes with the story of Scott Center, a real estate owner making coffee at 7:30 on a Saturday morning, who explained it simply: what I do, they do.
If you are waiting on a title to start leading, this episode is the nudge to stop waiting.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Credibility is the floor, not the ceiling.
Trust plus competence. "I know you have my best interest at heart, and I know you're not an idiot." Three decades of research keeps landing in the same place, across every generation studied. Everything else you build as a leader sits on top of this.
2. Your deal breakers are your blueprint.
The behaviors that made you say "I could never work for that person," the competitor, the hypocrite, the micromanager, are your clearest instruction manual. Name them honestly, then audit yourself against the list.
3. Think with your imagination, not your memory.
A line from mentor Jim Surbaski. Leaders stuck in a legacy loop keep replaying what used to work, whether or not it still works. The better question is always "what if it did exist?" and then "what would have to happen first?"
4. Radical self awareness comes before everything else.
Mike's non negotiable: whether or not you are at fault, as the leader you contributed something to the outcome. Not blame, understanding. You cannot lead a dynamic you cannot see.
5. Be, then do. Do not do in order to become.
Bad leaders can be organized, keep great calendars, and take excellent notes. Skills are not the differentiator. The leader who shows up needing to be seen as the authority is performing. The leader who shows up settled in who they are gives the room something to orient around.
6. Learning to be led is prerequisite to leading.
Working for a bad boss teaches you what you will never recreate. Working for a good one shows you what is possible. You need both data points, and most people only appreciate the first one in hindsight.
7. Know your why, and check it for selfishness.
"I had to work for myself or become a CEO because I don't like working under people" is not a leadership motive. It is a warning sign. The durable why sounds like this: I believe I can grow this company, grow these people, and leave this community better than I found it.
8. Great leaders do not sell followership. They build belief.
Credibility and character create belief in the leader, which creates belief in self, which creates belief in the team, which creates belief in what is possible. That chain is how culture actually forms.
9. Positional authority is not leadership.
Leading is carving a path and charting a course for the people behind you. If it's all about what you want, you may hold the position, but you are not leading. Jody's friendly amendment: do not promise people easier. Promise them better.
10. You set the tone, whether you mean to or not.
The leader who is chronically late gets a chronically late team. The owner who shows up first on Saturday gets a team that shows up on Saturday. And you are never too senior to make the coffee, pick up the locker room, or clean up your own spill.
11. Develop them well enough to leave. Lead them well enough to stay.
Nobody who works for you is an indentured servant. They can walk out today. That is not a threat. It is the entire case for leading by inspiration instead of mandate.
12. Influence starts now. The title comes later.
You can lead well at any level. If you want to be a great leader, start where you are. The position may follow, but the influence does not have to wait for it.
QUOTABLE MOMENTS
"Anybody who holds others accountable for what they will not hold themselves accountable for."
Mike Grigsby, on the fastest way to lose him
"You hired me for my expertise. Let me go be an expert for you."
Mike Grigsby
"Think with your imagination and not your memory."
Jim Surbaski, quoted by Mike Grigsby
"There's never a point where you know enough. And the moment you believe you know everything you need to know, that's when you have already started going backward."
Jody Holland
"How great is it that you can work for a bad boss, so that you can know what you don't want to be one day?"
Meghan Slaughter's dad, on a rough first job
"Develop your people so well that they could leave, but lead so well that they choose to stay."
Meghan Slaughter
"You should try to do as a result of already being, not do for the purpose of becoming."
Mike Grigsby
"You must be seen as the leader, you must be seen as the know-it-all, you must be seen as the one with all the ideas. That is a very toxic orientation and posture for any leader to have."
Mike Grigsby
"The greatest leaders don't convince people to follow them. They create a belief system."
Jody Holland
"You may be in positional authority, but you're not leading."
Mike Grigsby
"You're never too high up to make coffee."
Maleah Berens
"I'm here because what I do, they do. If I don't show up on a Saturday, a bunch of them won't show up on a Saturday. I set the tone."
Scott Center, as told by Jody Holland
"It was my mess."
President Ronald Reagan, found on his hands and knees cleaning up spilled water the day after being shot
"Your life is not easier when you're in charge. It is lonelier, but it's a tremendously positive and rewarding burden, because you get to bring the best out in people."
Jody Holland
"The position might come later, but the influence starts now."
Meghan Slaughter
"Drown out the noise and figure out how to leave your community a little bit better than you found it."
Maleah Berens
"Success leaves clues."
Meghan Slaughter
"Imagine as a leader, if you leave people so much better than you found them, how much people want to follow you."
Jody Holland
REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE
Kouzes and Posner, The Leadership Challenge. Three decades of research on credibility as the foundation of followership.
Carl Rogers. The evaluated self versus the aspirational self.
Jim Surbaski. Mentor to both Jody and Mike. "Think with your imagination, not your memory."
Scott Center, Center Realtors, Abilene, Texas. The Saturday morning coffee lesson.
Colt McCoy and Connor Williams, University of Texas. Taking pride in the locker room.
Japanese fans at FIFA matches. Cleaning the stands after the game ends.
YOUR TURN
Three questions to sit with this week:
1. What did a bad leader do to you that you have promised yourself you would never do to someone else, and have you actually kept that promise?
2. If your team mirrored your habits exactly for the next 30 days, what would they be doing? Is that the team you want?
3. What is your real why for wanting to lead? Say it out loud. Does it hold up?
SHARE THIS ONE
If this episode made you think about the kind of leader you are becoming, pass it along to someone who is stepping into leadership for the first time, or someone who has been at it long enough to need the reminder.
Share it with a colleague, a new supervisor, or your whole team.
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Leave a comment and tell us: what is the one thing that would make you say "I could never work for that person"?
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And never forget to become the kind of leader that you would actually follow.
