Jody Holland (00:08.823)
Hey guys, Jody Holland here with Malia Burns, Mike Grigsby, and Megan Slaughter. We have got a great episode for you today on the Become the Leader podcast. We're going to be talking about leading vision in your organization and the differentiator between what it means to have an actual vision for your organization versus all the other stuff we do. And Mike, I really liked your thoughts on this when we're prepping for it. So I'm going to let you kick us off with a little bit of a description of what vision is and is not.
Mike Grigsby (00:38.122)
Yeah. I l I love those love this one. I I actually have notes. I normally just go right off the cuff, but I I wrote notes. So if you see me looking down, it's so that I so that I don't go off the cuff and I actually stay on on track. But I thought it was really important, you know, as when we're looking at vision, I think vision is one of those things, either for emerging leaders or even leaders who who really haven't taken time to be deliberate and intentional in their their growth and development. I think it's easy
Vision is one of those words where it's easy to think you understand what it means, but it's but you don't really understand, kind of have true comprehension for that. And that's I don't mean that as a slight or a finger pointing thing. I think we just use these words so often that they get deluded and we we miss the meaning of them. So there's a difference between a vision and a mission and a goal and an objective. And if you don't get those things right, what ends up happening, or at least what I have seen, is that.
You have, you know, if you don't get your vision and your mission right, or you get them confused, yet you end up having like high inspiration with zero accountability, or you get this really, really high activity with no clear direction for what you're trying to accomplish. Like I know we're doing something, we're really, really productive. I have no idea what we're what the end is gonna look like. And so if you think about it, and and I was trying to really boil this down to help people understand.
You think about it, your vision is the horizon. And if you think about the horizon like we see out out today, it's that thing that you you're constantly progressing toward and you never reach, right? Your vision is highly aspirational. It's that thing you're always going to and you're always at least 99% there. You'll never get that that full 100%. So think about vision as that that horizon. Your mission is the vehicle and the route that you're going to take to reach that horizon. Your goals are notable waypoints.
along the journey. And finally, your objectives, that's your speedometer, that's your telematics. That's the things you're measuring to make sure you're still moving as opposed to standing still. So it's I I don't know if we want to dig deeper into that, but I think it's important just to set that out because vision again, it's one of those words that we say so many times. Few so few of us have real comprehension of what that means.
Jody Holland (02:57.483)
yeah, I hear so many companies say things like, it's our vision to be number one in our market. I don't think that inspires anybody. If your mission does not inspire your people, and if it does not inspire your customers to want to be a part of it, it's not a vision. It's just a goal or an objective. I think that's one of the easiest ways that I've looked at it. So Megan, jump in there with your thoughts on this.
Meghan Slaughter (03:23.195)
To me, vision is the big picture. So you're looking far off into the distance, like Mike was saying, and it's where you're going, but it doesn't necessarily tell you how you're going to get there. That's what the mission and your goals and objectives are about. But the vision is just focusing on kind of why are we doing this and where are we hoping to go? Like what are we getting out of this? And so you you put the pieces together in other areas of your business, but
The vision is that guiding beacon. It's the light that tells you which way to turn when you feel lost so that you're not wandering aimlessly.
Jody Holland (04:01.473)
Yeah. Lina, your thoughts on from think of it from a nonprofit standpoint. When nonprofits create a vision, what matters the most about that vision?
Maleah Berens (04:12.395)
Absolutely. Well, nonprofits at the the basis of the work is entirely focused on how does it impact my most immediate community and how does it impact the region and then how does it impact nation and globally. so I think this idea of mission is kind of more focused in what happens in your immediate circle, that kind of more B2B kind of collaboration, whereas the vision is really talking, like you were saying, Mike more aspirationally, how could this impact
The region, how do we want this to impact the region? And then the objectives and goals kind of support that work. But I think at the end of the day, the most important thing with the vision is understanding it's removing yourself from the equation and understanding the kind of the landscape of who you're serving and who you can impact.
Jody Holland (05:03.011)
So, okay, I I get that. Removing yourself from the equation. One pushback I would have, or one thing I would think, is I think a lot of us, at least in entrepreneurial ventures, and I would assume in the nonprofit world, we suffered through something that made us think nobody should have to go through this. And that's the part of yourself that you would keep inserted in there. But I mean, based on my experience, the other thing about the origin of my company, I worked for a really good leader.
And then a really bad leader. And I quit the bad leader. And then I left that organization and I went to work for a a new organization with a really great leader. And then he left and I worked for a really bad leader. And I quit that bad leader. And then I went to work for another organization. And I was really excited because this is a great leader. And he had been at that organization for 20 plus years. He was never going to go anywhere until six months later when.
He got an offer he just couldn't refuse and he moved to Houston. And I I got a really, really, really like fourth level bad leader to replace him. And I went, There is no way I'm staying with this. Somebody needs to fix leadership. And so I think out of people's pain comes their vision. So I think the same thing is true throughout all of history. You suffer through something and you go,
Nobody should have to do this. Somebody needs to fix it. And they look around and like, I don't see anybody fixing it the right way. So I'm going to jump in and fix it. So I think that's where a lot of times people's vision begins. And I've seen that in the nonprofit world too. I mean, go back to Scouting America with Lord Baden Powell, who originated the Boy Scouts, not here in the United States, but over in England. And it was young boys need adventure and they need to learn survival and they need to learn to struggle through problems and
Become resilient and self-reliant and dad Gummet, there's not a program for that. Let's just build one. Because we can't put them in the military at 11 years old. Like that was his original idea, I think. So he puts them in this program that is scouting. And the Boy Scouts of America are born, I don't know, 10 or 15 years after that, based on Lord Baden Powell taking it to other countries. And that's the way it was created, is Dad Gummet.
Jody Holland (07:23.105)
These young men need to learn to be self reliant, self sufficient and driven and all that. His vision was taking young people, young men at the time, turning them into great future leaders. I think when you look at anything that we do, we we see a problem and we see a potential for the future. And go back to what Megan said a minute ago, you have to know why it matters. So take, for example, you know, our business, Megan.
When you think about building great leaders which result in great cultures, why does that matter?
Meghan Slaughter (07:58.77)
I think everybody deserves to work for a great boss and have a great workplace. I mean, we all have to work and so you're gonna go to one place or another, I think it should be a good environment wherever you're at.
Jody Holland (08:13.453)
So when people are learning to work, I'm gonna jump over to Mike on this one because you talked about, you know, telemetrics and KPIs and all the the jargon there that we learn in corporate America to survive. Did you think about all of those things? Have you ever woke up on a random Monday and thought, I am so excited about my KPIs?
Mike Grigsby (08:36.013)
Every Monday. Just in case just in case anybody is listening to this, you know, anybody I know is listening to this video, right? No, of course not. Yeah. The the KPIs themselves are the they're they're important. I mean, think about this, right? I I get up and I I I work out. Yeah, I I work out or I you know, I walk or I run or whatever the case is. My metrics are my KPIs are can I do it faster, can I do it better, can I do it?
Jody Holland (08:38.583)
Ha ha ha.
Jody Holland (08:42.135)
Yeah, I do not believe you. I own a business and I'm not excited about my own KPIs.
Jody Holland (08:52.877)
Sure. You can't hit the vision without them.
Mike Grigsby (09:05.079)
But overall, that's not the inspiring thing. The inspiring thing is like where I'm headed. And and I I want to circle back because Malia Malia said something. She said, take yourself out of the picture. I agree with that. And I would even say that to the degree that I'm about to about to say, you know, the the founder of the Boy Scouts took himself out of the picture, but he did it from a standpoint of he made it bigger than himself.
And I think that is really, really important. And and Melina, that maybe I'm mixing words, but I think that's the I think that's kind of the the gist of it is is make sure that it's bigger than yourself. If your vision is to be able to, you know, be the first on your block block to collect all six. I remember that was the the thing for all the serial commercials, right? The toy in the in the box. That's not really a vision. You can do that. You don't need others. It it's not gonna out survive you and and things along those lines. And
If you make it bigger than yourself, you truly are looking at that horizon that you'll never reach. And it it's it's desire to be inspirational, right? And even aspirational for that matter, right? And I think I I I will I wanted to come back to that because I thought that was a really good point. Take yourself out of the picture. But you do that by making the vision bigger than yourself. And I would also say, I would also say that, you know, we're talking about leading a vision, not
Jody Holland (10:08.557)
Yeah.
Jody Holland (10:18.595)
That's a good point.
Mike Grigsby (10:24.275)
owning the vision. And that's the other thing that I see happen in so many organizations. It's one person's vision. It's not owned. It's not picked up by other people within the organization. And if it's just one person's vision, it will absolutely fall apart and fail the minute they are no longer e no longer there or no longer pushing it with their own manual effort. It has to be something that gets picked up by by everybody else to to really be that that kind of broad encompassing vision.
Maleah Berens (10:53.347)
Well and I wanna add something to to what you're saying because when it becomes one single person you lose the it it doesn't become a vision anymore. At that point it's a personal mission statement. And so this idea of a vision has to be it has to be fluid, it has to be able to be influenced by outside different events or or circumstances or environments.
Mike Grigsby (11:03.276)
Yeah, yeah.
Maleah Berens (11:17.643)
And and this idea that you have to be able to bring people in who see, see what your vision is, understand where you think it could go, and then are willing to influence that as well. Leading a vision simply means that you're you're the one holding the platform for it, but it means that you also are willing to hold space for other people to influence it.
Jody Holland (11:40.823)
That makes a lot of sense. So in that case, I totally get what you're saying about removing yourself from that because it does track that for the future, if it's all about you, then you're you're stuck in hero mode and you need other people to see your greatness. So
Mike Grigsby (11:41.525)
That's good. That's good.
Mike Grigsby (11:56.973)
Like quite
Meghan Slaughter (11:57.042)
So I have a question I want to pose. so the vision is something that you're always constantly chasing, but it's something that you never really reach. How do you maintain the momentum with your people centered around that vision? How do you keep them inspired and chasing after it?
Jody Holland (12:15.427)
That's a good one. Who's jumped in?
Mike Grigsby (12:15.565)
I like that because I because I I think that and yeah, to to to talk about your question question directly, I think vision and culture are two sides of the same coin. So on the one side, I think vision is the aspirational side of where you're wanting to go. On the flip side of that, culture is how you make decisions, how you allocate your resources, how you behave and how get everybody else to behave on their way to that vision. And I think that I think that's it.
you know, the underlying of that, the how do you get that done, I think there's a thousand and one different ways that could do that. You know, we saw Google bought table, you know, was it ping pong tables at one point, another company brought video games and another one did, you know, Casual Friday, you know, all the ultimate casual Friday. There's a lot of different ways you can actualize that within your your you know, kind of follower followership, you know, your your group. But
I think it definitely is. It's it's gotta be able to infuse how you make decisions, how you allocate your resources and how everybody behaves within your organization while you're on that way to that horizon.
Jody Holland (13:22.573)
And I think also I'm gonna throw this in there. I think culture kind of phases in the way a person feels while chasing something. And it I would look at it f like from a travel standpoint. Nobody is excited about going to the airport and waiting on an airplane. But you need your KPIs in order to get to Dustin, Florida, where you're going on vacation. You're really excited about being in Dustin, Florida.
So you're becoming this relaxed person, but you go, pain and suffering that we have to go through in order to get there. I'll do that because I see a great destination in the future. The problems that we face in business, if we don't have enough fuel to face those problems, i.e., a good culture and a great leader that believes in us and inspires us, then I think we end up just fighting against it. But I
I think when you look at that combination of things, and I'm not even sure I've still answering your question correctly, Megan. So jump in there if you need to. I think we're looking at it from the perspective of I want to build something that outlasts me. And to the point that Mike made, I think all three of you have made this now, but we are becoming because it we are humans becoming the next version of ourselves. And no matter where you're at, there is a next version of yourself. And if the company provides a framework.
And a vision worth chasing to become a better you, then all the goals, all the struggle, all the suffering, all of that makes sense. But if it's just about making the boss a little richer, I don't think people are gonna get excited about that. And I see far too many people in charge. I'm not gonna call them leaders, people in charge are like, You will do it my way, and I'm gonna make this amount of money, and you better just you know, and they're like yelling at people to try to make it work and it
Mike Grigsby (15:09.409)
Yeah.
Jody Holland (15:12.695)
Nobody wants to be yelled at. Nobody gets excited about that. Well, yeah, jump in there.
Maleah Berens (15:17.847)
I think this idea of celebrating the the big and small wins, you guys all know I'm really big on celebrating wins because it literally, by the time that you're done saying whatever it is that you're proud of yourself for doing, you have a smile on your face and you're ready to go tackle your next big thing. So I think this idea of creating a culture of wins and celebrating wins together is and like you were saying, Mike, like celebrating those milestones. You have your missions, you have your goals set in place to help support the vision. And so it's it's important.
Important to celebrate those small things as you keep going. I think about there's a million different ways you could go from West Coast to East Coast. You could go from South California to Florida, or you could go from Washington to New York, or I think New York does go to the end of wait. You get the point. But it's depending on what kind of travel you want to have.
Meghan Slaughter (16:07.127)
Yeah.
Maleah Berens (16:16.195)
Do you want to go through mountains? Do you want to go through beaches? Do you want to so pick the environment that you wish to travel in? and then the destination and the starting point don't.
Meghan Slaughter (16:27.537)
I really like that. And I think that for me, it's about how you frame the vision for your people and you get them to rally around it. So, you know, I talk about perspective a lot and I think it's important to be able to have that conversation with your people and help them understand why the vision is there in the first place. And you know, like you were saying earlier, Malia, like getting their input, including them in that conversation.
Mike Grigsby (16:27.541)
Love that. There's a group.
Meghan Slaughter (16:54.531)
And being able to flex that vision whenever necessary, I think that's really powerful. And something that Jody talks a lot about is storytelling. And you know, you can use storytelling outside of your organization, but I absolutely think you should be using it inside your organization as well with your own people, getting them to really adopt that vision for themselves and the work that they're doing.
Jody Holland (17:20.077)
So I want to add one thing to that too. And I do think in story, one of the things that's interesting is every hero needs an enemy to face. And we as the company, we are not the customer's hero. We are a guide for the customer, but we are not the hero to the customer. The customer is the hero of the story. So who is it that they are fighting against, or what is it that they are fighting against? You know, you you think about
in the medical community, St. Jude's fights against people not being able to afford the critical care that they need for the most precious part of their life for their children. So a lot of people support St. Jude's, they give a lot of money to St. Jude's because the enemy of unaffordability and suffering, those are worth fighting. And the the vision of healthy children healing in a place where they are loved and cared for.
And made to feel special in one of the toughest times of their life, that's worth chasing. But they don't go, man, it is our vision to improve our efficiency ratio by 3.2% this year, because we are so excited about that. You're like, no, no, nobody but the efficiency ratio expert is excited about that. So you're chasing a future. And I think every story, go back to the story selling for just a second, every story has a the world as it is.
Mike Grigsby (18:34.647)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jody Holland (18:46.175)
And the world as it should be. The easiest thing that I use on the storytelling part of it is when you're chasing that vision, that is the world as it should be, fighting the enemies who are trying to keep it as it is.
Mike Grigsby (19:02.071)
that's you know, s so many times again, I'm back to the we hear we hear these things called visions. there's a vision statement, it gets put posted on the wall, it's a poster, and it's not used it's not used on a daily basis, right? And it makes it really difficult. I I think I said this in a previous episode, but you know, I f several years ago I interviewed
Chief Marketing Officer for or Chief Communications Officer Southwest Airlines. And one of the things that she was talking about was that you could pull any employee aside and say, What do you do? And they say, I fly planes. Like that's a vision, right? I fly planes. There's no end to that. There's no, there's no place called done when you say I fly planes. And if you continue to think about that, that vision also allows you not only does it, you know, does it become granular and map down to the
Jody Holland (19:39.307)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Grigsby (19:57.438)
know, anybody on the line, line staff executive, whatever it is, anybody can say I I fly planes. The other thing that it does is if you understand kind of the macro of your vision, it allows you to be resilient when things change. Right. I can't remember Jody, I think it might have been good to great or or some some book back in the day. It was like if if the railroad companies have understood understood that they were in the transportation business as opposed to the railroad business.
We might be flying on Conrail right now, right? Or Burlington Northern, you know, as opposed to flying on Southwest. If you if you understand what your vision is at a macro view, it allows you to rip and re I should say rip and replace, it allows you to overlay that on top of whatever the next evolutionary thing is, because you're not stuck, you're not rigid and fixed in in one thing railroad versus transportation. So
I think it I think the vision also helps you to understand kind of the business you're truly in versus what you have to be doing right now.
Jody Holland (20:58.785)
Yeah. Well, and go back to the Burlington Northern and I'm pretty sure that was Jim Collins' good to great that that was in. you think about the problem that you're solving is how to get freight from one location to another, not how to build better railroads. And that was the part that he was describing is if we're building a better future, which is step one in a framework for creating a great vision, what will exist because we succeeded? We will have
You know, an incredible way to transport people and freight from East Coast to West Coast, West Coast to East Coast, North to South, or any place that they want to go. That would be pretty awesome. And you described the we fly planes. I think the meaningful cause that you have, if I were describing Southwest Airlines from its infancy, let's go back to Herb Kelleher's days when he was running it, it was we give people a great
Great experience getting from point A to point B through air travel. And that's kind of what they did. I mean, at one point they were the largest distributor of Jack Daniels in the United States because they gave out a fifth of Jack Daniels to every passenger that was over 18 years old at the time. Then the drinking age went up to 21, just for those listening. Second is you have to have a meaningful cause. That goes back to what all of you said, where it's something that's
Mike Grigsby (22:11.853)
That's right.
Jody Holland (22:25.389)
Bigger than ourselves, beyond ourselves, something that actually matters. The third thing, and I always talk about who do we serve? You've got to know who is it that we're trying to benefit by this. Are we take Tamian, for example, the big text he sent out on Saturday about building a library at that learning center for men in prison who, when they get out, they need to have a better life. So he's helping transform their thinking.
So that they have a better future. That is, he is focused on the men in prison for that particular cohort. He also does a lot of great stuff with leadership. Then you talk about how we will transform them. Who, who do we have to change and how should they change? So, like, what is going to be different because we're doing this? I do know in my own experience that part of the transformation that
The CFO wants is will this make more money than I'm spending? I mean, the practical side of business when you hire a contractor is it better be worthwhile. You know it's worthwhile when you get to an outcome. And then finally, the ultimate thing that I think we're all looking for is who will I become? If I buy this product, participate in this service, do whatever, who will I become? Because that's what I think everybody wants to know, especially.
really should be an all, but especially in the nonprofit world, the whole focus is on the becoming portion of it.
Maleah Berens (23:59.374)
I wanna add one.
One quick thing in into the the becoming portion. I think it's something really, really important to understand. And this is something that I personally have learned in probably the last year, year and a half of understanding what it means to be content at every stage that you're at in the growth process. so I have a quote in my bathroom and it says, I'm so in love with who I will become. So it's understanding I love the person that I'm going to become.
But also understanding that I love myself now and who that future of me is. So I think this idea of instead of just so focused on what's to come and so focused on the future, understanding that the here was a there at one point of wanting to be there, and so living in the here and understanding that the here is incredibly necessary.
Mike Grigsby (24:47.009)
Yeah.
Jody Holland (24:53.303)
Yeah. And you can't get there without the here. I guess that was a good question. You you did a catalyst for a lot of stuff. You got another good question? We got just a little time left here.
Mike Grigsby (24:54.657)
I like that. Yeah, I like that.
Meghan Slaughter (24:59.885)
Okay.
no, but I do have something to add on to that, that I I really love that perspective of giving yourself some grace in each stage of it. And it's always going to be a positive thing to have room for improvement. And I think there's a lot of negative feelings around that, saying like I'm not good enough if I need to be better. But you can be good and still go to great. I mean, obviously there's a book about it. so you should read that. It's
It's really good. But I do think that and you know, I've said this before and I'll say it again, as you grow, your potential grows and you can continue to get better. And I think without a shared vision within your organization, you experience stagnation or misaligned efforts. But with a very positive shared vision, then you understand where you're going and you understand the importance of becoming something better.
And appreciating those small wins, like Malia was saying earlier, you know, you can celebrate your growth as you're experiencing it, but you create this culture of continuous improvement because you know that you're capable of more. It's already within you. You've already done the hard work, and if you continue doing that, you can become so much more.
Jody Holland (26:24.225)
I like that. That's really good.
Mike Grigsby (26:25.643)
I you know the the you can crack open an acorn and and search for all you want, but you will never find a tree. And it's the same DNA that eventually becomes the tree. And I think I think w we, because as humans, we we can understand and we we have this consciousness that we understand where we are versus where we want to be or what what we'll be. I think we get kind of a little antsy. We we get a little
you know, just anxious about some things like I I wanna be at the the full oak tree. I don't want to be just a sapling or or anything else. And I was watching a a video the other day and it was a picture of two bald eagles playing on the ice. They had gotten a chunk of ice and they were literally kicking it around and fumbling and they they did not look majestic at all, but they were having an absolute blast. And I thought I thought to myself, Eagles have no idea
Jody Holland (27:17.923)
We do.
Mike Grigsby (27:24.673)
That we think they are majestic. They're just eagles. Like a a giant sequoia tree has no comprehension of being grand. We think it is. And I think that I think taking that frame of mind, like your business, your organization, your whatever it is, your entrepreneurial business, it it is going to be whatever it's going to be. Other people will think that it's grand or majestic or whatever, but if you are able to just live in it the way that it is.
It will eventually be recognized as grand or majestic or whatever the case is. We just don't have to worry about.
Jody Holland (28:00.257)
Yeah. I I think the the key to all of this is be honest about who you are, be inspired by where you want to go, and build the kind of culture that people go, I won't get off this ride for anything until we become that version of ourselves that we just put out there. And I think if you do that, you've done something absolutely amazing and something that very few people in this world really get to experience. If you've ever been a part of a movement that
inspired you to to just be like the Eagles. Just be who you're supposed to be without a a worry in the world about what anybody else thinks. And nothing can get in your way from being who you're supposed to be. I think that's the greatest feeling in the world. So I'm going to give you a quick formula here and then I'm going to wrap us up. The what I was talking about on those different steps in the framework, you kind of put it together. We exist too.
And then you'd say create whatever the better future is so that the people that we serve. So you need to identify who you're serving, can experience whatever the meaningful transformation is that their experiences. And we become whatever you as an organization, a nonprofit, whatever you become in the process. And if you follow that formula, it puts it into an easy-to-understand vision of the organization. I know.
Mike does some consulting on this. I do some consulting on this. Megan is a great communication strategist and has helped companies with this. Malia, I'm assuming you've already done this with the nonprofits that you have served in leadership roles on. If you guys need help, reach out to us. Yeah, reach out to us, see how we can get plugged into your organization and help you get to that vision that people will rally around and you couldn't get them to quit for anything. So thank you guys for joining us for this episode of Become the Leader.
On Leading the Vision, we've got Mike Grigsby, Malia Burns, Megan Slaughter, and Little O'Me, Jody Holland. We'll see you guys on the next episode.